They said, "li, We used to have such great hope in you. But it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, who then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself. However, not all of them were destroyed; Salih and hisfollowers continued to live on. p.190. The Targum is,thou art like to an eagle that dwells in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is in a high place;this they were proud of, thinking themselves safe, which deceived them; hence it follows: that saith in his heart, who shall bring me down to the ground? Here you can read various translations of verse 38. Ive discussed this more below. As such, missionaries and polemicists have claimed that the mistakes of Muslim folklore, or contradictory applications of the name Thamud to archaeological discoveries, suggest an historical mistake in the Quran. [3] Nigel Groom, Frankincense and Myrrh, A Study of the Arabian Incense Trade, Longman, London and New York; Librairie du Liban, Beirut, 1981, p. 189, pg. Allah knows best if that really happened (this event is not mentioned in the Quran or Sunnah.). Claim that the Edomites are not Thamud thus the verses are irrelevant. This is what the Sovereign LORD says about Edom Obadiah 1:3 The leftover of Ad were taken and built over by Thamud. . The Thamud were Arabs, and the Bible tells us in Genesis 28:9 that Esauthe father of the Edomites married into the Ishmaelites, so that makes Edomites half Arabs also. Of course, when they challenged Allah and His Messenger like this, they were just inviting destruction. This law they hold because they judge that those who possess these things will be easily compelled by powerful men to do what is ordered them because of their enjoyment of these things. 1995. International Dictionary of Historic Places. Another inscription from the same temple mentions Aad by name, and reads, by Ghawth son of Aslah son of Thokam and he constructed the temple of Allt, of the people of Ad. No, not at all. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. The points raised by alfinlandi are very reasonable to counter the points of the article. For a few reasons. In fact they were pretty snarky in their responses. 12. 3) The tombs were in fact built by Thamud as houses and the Nabateans simply inscribed them later. The Aad werent about that. Then, it was not Allah Who caused them any wrong; they . It is generic for multitude of civilizations Look, it doesnt matter if you warn us or dont warn us, were not going to listen to you. Otherwise, it could be also the Lihyanites, who disappeared some time before Isa (as), they also had some kind of rock art. The verses are fairly generic as there has been mention of people of Lut and Shoaib that are also very close proximity. [7][8] In a somewhat muddled passage, Pliny the Elder, a Roman historian of the first century CE, appears to locate the Thamd at the unidentified inland town of "Baclanaza". However, that does not solve the dilemma of who carved out the hills and mountains in Petra because the Edomites existed prior to the Nabateans, who according to the Christians were the ones who carved out the mountains and hills of Petra and Madian Saleh in 1st or 2nd century B.C. In my research, I did discover that the tombs do contain pre-Nabatean inscriptions. 3. Hence, they had become very rich. from there I will bring you down, Both. Chapter (41) srat fuilat (Explained in Detail) Sahih International: But if they turn away, then say, "I have warned you of a thunderbolt like the thunderbolt [that struck] 'Aad and Thamud.. Pickthall: But if they turn away, then say: I warn you of a thunderbolt like the thunderbolt (which fell of old upon the tribes) of A'ad and Thamud;. How archeologists date the tombs and other structures is primarily based on the inscriptions found in them. I have yet to find a shred of evidence of a dead body that was placed in any of the recesses in the walls. They were successors to the People of Noah. BUY ISLAMIC BOOKS by The Sincere Seeker for Adults & Children on AMAZON: https://www.amazon.com/thesincereseekerFOLLOW The Sincere Seeker on social media to . They were able to build great structures and buildings, They had children to carry on their progeny. We cannot preclude the notion that structures that are completely different from what has been found so far, will be found in the future. Asking the deceased for supplications or intercession? The Fatimid era was the peak of Bedouin Arab tribal migrations to Egypt. According to the Greek historian, Diodorus Siculus, the Nabateans have a law neither to sow corn nor to plant any fruit-bearing plant, nor to use wine, nor to build a house. The above article contained links to images which do not show up in here after I copied and pasted them from my ms word. Do you think that there inside of there buildings had to of caved in We have to be open to the idea that a person living thousands of years ago will have a different concept of a place of dwelling than we, in the 21st century, do. Regardless, the thamud tribes structures remained for people to see according to Quran. They mixed with the people of Qahtan and descendants of Prophet Abraham pbuh. [18] According to the Quran, the Thamud were the successors of a previous nation called the d, who had also been destroyed for their sins. [6], Thamd is also mentioned in Classical sources. The Thamd were known from contemporary sources to have occupied parts of the Hejaz region, and later Islamic tradition holds that they settled on the slopes of Mount Athlab. Aad and Thamud are two of several communities described in the Quran as recipients of Gods chosen prophets and being utterly destroyed for rejecting them. 1. Updates? To Aad was sent the prophet Hud; to Thamud, Saleh, and together with another mysterious figure, Shoaib, they constitute the only three pre-Islamic prophets mentioned in the Quran that have an exclusive Arab provenance. Then bring us what you promise us if you are among the truthful.Chapter 7, Verse 70, It is all the same to us if you advise us are not from among the advisors. Ignore the entire thing and continue to spread their deception and lies. But the buildings of the Aad are like Lego blocks compared to the Thamud. After several centuries of independent existence, it was finally incorporated into the Roman empire in 106 AD. Personallhy, I think that number is too soon. As is the usual case, the Christians are, 1. According to the Online Corpus of the Inscriptions of Ancient North Arabia (OCIANA) at the University of Oxford: Thamudic is a name invented by nineteenth-century scholars for large numbers of inscriptions in ANA alphabets which have not yet been properly studied. Point by Ismail about the order of the messengers from earliest to latest also is something to ponder over and maybe the people of the Hijr are different from the Thamud. It was He who brought you into being from the earth and made you inhabit it, so ask forgiveness from Him, and turn back to Him: my Lord is near, and ready to answer." The Story of The Aad And The Thamud Nation_ Qur'an __ | _ Dua for Relief Distress, Laziness, Debts : Suhih Muslim_ Book of General Behaviour_ Kitab al Suhih Muslim_ The Book of Destiny (KITAB-UL-QADR) Chapter___ Raising Index Finger in Tashahhud. Secondly, the Ayaat are not only meant for the Sahaba, they are also for us and for all times and so when the Quran asks the readers to look at what happened to those before, it is meant for us as well. [2] The Quran endorses this fact; they were not outright destroyed and the believers survived: Then look! These prefixes ignored in the alphabetical ordering: Al, Bani, Banu. An envoy was sent to the nations to say, . Their responses, while snarky, were fairly simple. I am also writing an text on this that I inshaAllah will put up online. It may very well be that during the time of the prophet, certain structures were still apparent to them that are now hidden due to natural occurrences, such as earthquakes, accretion of sand and erosion with time. The ruins were identified by the Prophet (s) as belonging to those who wronged themselves, without ascribing them to the very first tribe of Thamud. As for option 2, we know next to nothing about the Thamud. The tribes of Arabia descend from either one of the two Arab ancestors, Adnan or Qahtan. The same can be said of Median Saleh, much of the area is still hidden under sand. Like the people of Ad, they erected huge buildings on the plains and hewed beautiful homes out of the hills. Our editors will review what youve submitted and determine whether to revise the article. Yes, I understood but if you read my comment, youll see that this problem is addressed. Salam. If the Bible tells us nothing more, at least it illustrates that carving out structures on mountains predated the Nabateans, and that is all we need to refute the Christian allegation against the Quran. Many centuries elapse before we find Thamud again in the textual record, though their name crops up many times in (undated) inscriptions throughout North Arabia. declares the LORD. In fact, we even know the scripts they used! [26] The Arab descendants of the original Arabian settlers who continue to speak Arabic as a first language currently form the single largest population group in North Africa. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. The general consensus among 14th-century Arab genealogists is that Arabs are of three kinds: The Hawazin tribe and the Quraysh tribe are considered Adnani Arabs. If you keep that mindset, youll go far, Inshallah. The Ghassanids increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority of Semites were Aramaic peoples. . Even if the prophet saw these exact structures which are visible today and we can, hypothetically, prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no one ever lived in them, and he took them to be the dwellings of the Thamud, that isnt a major problem. And perhaps, just like the Aad before them, they forgot the faith of Tawheed practiced by their ancestors and slipped into worhsiping idols. The exact time of their existence is nearly impossible to determine. Unfortunately, both nations rejected their prophets. And Ad and Thamud as has been made clear from their dwellings. And you said the nabteons built over them so if they built over them all then how could the prophet see them or the quran describe them when they were built over by them and by the time the prophet came because the nabateans came before jazzakkallah, But these are the last 5 questions and thats it sorry to keep bothering you it is that Im getting all the information I can so if Im ever questioned then I can answer them jazzakkallah, Sorry just 2 more but thats it most of these questions are yes or no their country was called Arabia Petraea, the rocky; and their metropolis Petra, the rock: Jerom says that they that inhabited the southern part of the country and dwelt in caves cut out of the rock, to screen them from the heat of the sun: or, thou that dwellest in the circumferences of the rock F16; round about it, on the top of it, in a tower built there, as Kimchi and Ben Melech. Is their carved construction still there today? There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger . Some people think petra was thamud do you think so jazzakkallah, But the main question for me is the first one number 1 the rest are just side questions but number 1 is the main one for me what I would like a detailed response the rest are more of yes or no qustions jazzakkallah sorry to keep bothering you, But I do agree with your article its just getting more information thats all jazzakkallah so I know how to answer this question jazzakkallah, This is part of qustion 4 do you think 27:52 is talking about there dwellings in the mountions or on the plains or both and does 27:52 mean there dwellings collapsed fallen because if yes 89:9 makes it sound like it is standing that there are more of the buildings showing then just partially but more showing of the buildings so how do we explain this jazzakkallah, Sorry for them being spaced out just put them together but 8. also if there buildings were very big there had to be more left of the buildings remains in the time of the prophet then just partially shouldnt there or not because if they were big there should of been more left or not do you think jazzakkallah how would we explain this jazzakkallah but like I said question 1 is the main one, 9. I would rather think that the Thamud were more like two or three hundred years after the Aad. 41.13-18 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir. These prefixes ignored in the alphabetical ordering: Al, Banu. Thamd, li, al-ijr, Gods She-camel, Arabia and the Arabs by Robert Hoyland, Professor of Late Antique and Early Islamic Middle Eastern History at New York Universitys Institute for the Study of the Ancient World, pg 68. It describes what they used to do i.e. They were often stronger than you in signs or athar left behind has been oft repeated. [21] Syrians who belonged to Monophysitic denominations welcomed the peninsular Arabs as liberators. 7. 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